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Birth Chart Interpretation for

                          Barr Roseanne
                        November 3, 1952
                             1:21 PM
                     Salt Lake City, Utah  

                        Veraxs Int'l Inc.
                     3355 Bee Cave Road #606
                      Austin, TX 78746 USA
                       Phone: 512-826-5401
     From an esoteric point of view your birth chart is a
portrait of your soul's intention for this lifetime, the lessons
to be learned, qualities to develop, problems to be resolved,
service to be rendered.  From that perspective, the choices one
makes in one's daily life have reverberations that may last
beyond even this lifetime.

     This report is written to help you clarify your lessons and
goals, illuminate your struggles, and encourage you to move in
the direction of your true purposes.

     The best to you on your journey...

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Sun       11 Sco 22              Pluto     23 Leo 10
Moon       5 Gem 12              N. Node   17 Aqu 09
Mercury    3 Sag 20              Asc.       7 Aqu 16
Venus     15 Sag 26              MC        28 Sco 38
Mars      16 Cap 30              2nd cusp  24 Pis 46
Jupiter   16 Tau 32              3rd cusp   2 Tau 10
Saturn    20 Lib 47              5th cusp  20 Gem 05
Uranus    18 Can 29              6th cusp  11 Can 08
Neptune   22 Lib 11

Tropical  Placidus   Standard time observed
GMT: 20:21:00   Time Zone: 7 hours West
Lat. and Long. of birth: 40 N 45    111 W 53   

Aspects and orbs:
Conjunction  :  5 Deg 00 Min     Trine         :  4 Deg 00 Min
Opposition   :  5 Deg 00 Min     Sextile       :  3 Deg 00 Min
Square       :  4 Deg 00 Min     Quincunx      :  3 Deg 00 Min
Conjunct Asc :  3 Deg 00 Min Above,  5 Deg 00 Min Below
                       Chapter 1: The Moon

     The placement of the Moon in your birth chart is very
significant from a karmic perspective, as it indicates the
accumulated karmic tendencies, both positive and negative, that
you carry from your past incarnated experiences on earth.

     While the Sun reveals your intended purposes and lessons
for this present life cycle, the MOON represents what you have
already done and developed, hence, what is instinctive and
natural to you, and what you tend to do over and over again.
Your childhood is also reflected in the Moon's placement, as it
is through those childhood circumstances that any unresolved
past-life issues are re-stimulated.  Your subconscious
predisposition is indicated by the Moon's position.  It is the
psychic imprint of the past.  The nodes of the Moon describe
behavior patterns from the past, as well as delineating a
direction out of outworn or overdone behaviors and habits.

Moon in Gemini:

     You instinctively respond to stress by using your wit and
your intellect.  Humor, rationalization, and wielding the power
of the written or spoken word are your forte.  Oftentimes,
however, your "good idea" or rational solution overlooks the
emotional factors in a situation.  And your jokes or refusal to
take matters seriously, while defusing the stress somewhat, can
easily become a denial and a defense against feeling the less
pleasant aspects of life.

     At your most mischievous you use your verbal and
intellectual cleverness to play with people's heads.  You also
like to play with words or ideas, and entertain various
possibilities or options at the same time.  Essentially curious
and open to whatever new experience presents itself, you are not
eager to be pinned down to anyone.  There is a streak of
"Peter-Panism" in you, a distinct disinclination to grow up, to
commit yourself to someone or something and stay with it, and a
desire to fly away (at least emotionally) when a situation gets
too heavy.  There is, as well, a certain casualness or
breeziness with which you flirt with life (as, perhaps, other
people's feelings).  This does not negate the fact that you may
have a deeper side, simply that you have an ingrained tendency
to intellectualize or emotionally detach yourself, and to see
people (including yourself) as if they were characters in a
story, without fully immersing yourself in the emotional

     In your incarnational past you most likely moved around a
great deal, and you developed a capacity for adapting yourself
to new people and circumstances.  This presents itself in this
life as an underlying physical restlessness, a need for variety,
and a tendency to get fidgety if you stay put for too long.  You
require a great deal of mental stimulation, and may be addicted
to television, reading, talking or keeping busy.  While you may
very much desire home and roots, you do not find it easy to
establish them for yourself.  Subconsciously you expect to be on
the move and at a deep level you are more comfortable being
mobile than being firmly anchored.  You may also be wary of
committing yourself to another person "forever", because in your
deep subconscious memory, you have little experience of
stability and permanence.

     One gift you bring with you into this lifetime is your
ability to make conscious that which is subliminal and
emotionally felt, to put words or bring conscious awareness to
your own and others inner lives.  This may take the form of
writing (lyrics, stories, articles with a personal slant), or
perhaps simply talking about your own or another's feelings.

     You have an avid interest in psychology, and could be a
perceptive counselor or simply an incurable people-watcher!

Moon Opposition Mercury:

     You have a great need to understand the past, whether your
own personal life history or in a larger sense as in world
history or the evolution of cultures. You want and need an
historical understanding of life.  You may, however, dwell on
and be so immersed in memories of events that happened long ago
that it colors your entire perception of the present. At its
worst, this inclines you to be emotionally-biased and prejudice
in your thinking, and it will be a challenge for you to overcome
your tendency to project your own personal experiences and
tastes upon every situation, mixing the emotional with the
factual. At times, too, what you feel or are personally
comfortable with conflicts with your rational understanding or
stance on things. However, you may also translate this ability
to blend feelings with intellect into a particularly clear
understanding of the inner and subjective aspects of life and
with an ability to talk or write about them quite lucidly.  A
certain restlessness and sensitivity of the nervous system also
accompanies this aspect.

Moon Sesquiquadrate Saturn:

     You are bringing into your current lifetime subconscious
memories of harsh discipline, emotional deprivation, separations
from family and other sources of security, which prevented you
from being properly nourished and cared for.  You may be
responding to these experiences in different ways, for instance,
you may need tremendous amounts of reassurance and supportive
love from the people around you in order to feel that you can
trust them. You may cling to family, traditions, routines, and
structures. You may have persistent underlying feelings of
sadness or loss without recognizing their source.  You may
concentrate on your work and practical responsibilities (to
neglect your emotions and personal life).  You may isolate
yourself and feel alone, or refuse to be alone, becoming fearful
and anxious without others nearby.  You may be needy and
insecure about your worth, or hide all of your needs for love
and affirmation behind a mask of cool indifference.  On a
physical level, you may have an extremely sensitive stomach,
poor digestion, and an inability to take certain foods.

     Much of this is based on your subconscious belief that
whatever occurred in the past was your fault (even though you
may have been innocent), and that love, security, and comfort
are scarce commodities which can be withdrawn from you at any
time. In this lifetime you will be working with these patterns,
learning to nurture and care for yourself.  There may be periods
of aloneness and singularity which instead of being lonely and
isolated can be healing, giving you time to do quiet,
contemplative activities that nourish you.

     These strict disciplines you were burdened with in the past
need to be balanced with gentleness.  You are much too hard on
yourself, and you tend to see criticism and blame where none is
intended.  Above all, self-acceptance and cherishing yourself,
regardless of your flaws or supposed past errors, is a major
lesson in this current cycle.

North Node in Aquarius:

     In your incarnational past you developed your own
strengths, creativity, and individuality.  Your growth direction
now is to concern yourself more with making a contribution to
the good of the whole, and using your strengths and creativity
for the larger common good.

North Node in 1st house:

     When in close partnership with others you tend to fall back
into the old patterns.  Your partner or partners in life may
pull you back into that old way of being.

                       Chapter 2: The Sun

     The Sun in your birth chart represents the primary creative
thrust for this lifetime, those qualities you are to develop (or
further develop) and express, and your current life focus.  This
may be in harmony with your instincts and your emotional habits,
or along completely different lines.  The Sun represents your
conscious identity in this lifetime.

Sun in Scorpio:

     For you, this lifetime revolves upon the theme of
experiencing your emotional depths, and penetrating the surface
of life to explore the hidden, dark, secret or taboo.  What
lurks in the shadows or in the inner depths of the human soul is
what concerns you, and it is your task to become aware of and
express what you find hidden there.  What society at large may
fear or repress, you are fascinated with and drawn to experience
and understand.  This may include both a fear of and absorption
with death and the mysterious side of life, delving into the
politics of sexuality and power and experiencing strong, "dark"
emotions such as passion, jealousy, revenge, or a desire for
control.  At times you may feel like a misfit, that your
yearnings, desires, and true inclinations are somehow wrong or
bad, or even that you are bad.  You could take on a social
persona which is dark and hints at something sinister (such as
always wearing black, going out only at night...).  However,
your feeling for the dark undercurrents of life and your drive
to experience life passionately and intensely, without avoiding
any of it, may be expressed less overtly.

     You are attracted to crisis, those transition times in life
when people are tested, when their social masks do not matter
anymore, and the true person is revealed.  You may feel most
alive and most yourself in life and death situations, whether
you are involved in saving lives (as a doctor or healer), in
destroying them (as in war), or simply by seeking out dangerous
situations and dangerous companions.  Often you will create your
own crisis (especially in the arena of your close personal
relationships) in order to pit yourself against the challenge.
Other people may view this as a self-destructive urge in you, a
masochistic (or sadistic) streak.  The truth is you would rather
feel pain, than to feel nothing at all.  You want to be fully
immersed in it, deeply and passionately involved.  (Life for you
is not a spectator sport).

     You have great compassion and sympathetic feelings for
those suffering or in pain, whether physical or emotional, for
you are no stranger to it yourself.  You may feel scornful of
those people who appear to glide through life, never
experiencing any real tragedy or pain, or plumbing their own
depths.  In love, it is the possibility of loss or betrayal that
intensifies the experience for you.  Put simply, you do not
accept anything at face value, you instinctively know that there
is a dark underside for every light surface.  Understanding this
shadowy side is a key to fulfilling your life purpose.

     Personal relationships may be an obsession of yours, the
arena where your passion and drive for intense closeness and
emotional union expresses itself fully.  However, trust,
vulnerability, and relinquishing control are not easy for you.
Because of this, and because you have a great capacity and need
for emotional intensity (which not everyone can match) your
human relationships are frequently not smooth.  You go to
extremes. With you it is usually all or nothing, whether you
choose total celibacy or complete immersion and involvement.  A
really loving intimate relationship can be tremendously healing
for you also, especially if you allow your partner to see who
you really are, including those aspects of yourself you usually
hide and consider ugly and unacceptable.  Being unconditionally
accepted by another may be the first step toward embracing your
own "darkness", which will be a lifelong lesson for you.  The
fairy tale perhaps most relevant to this task is "Beauty and the
Beast".  Rather than rejecting your beastliness (your
negativity, fear, or not-beautiful emotions or impulses) you
must learn to look at and lovingly accept them, thus,
transforming yourself.  Ultimately it is those who have
struggled with and come to terms with their darkness who are
able to bring light, understanding and healing to others who
suffer, and this is part of your life's purpose.

                     Chapter 3: Rising Sign

     The point that was on the eastern horizon at the moment of
your birth is called the ASCENDANT, or rising sign.  While the
Sun describes your conscious direction and current life focus,
and the Moon your subconscious predisposition and past, the
Ascendant indicates a way of being that transcends and embraces
past, present, and future.  It describes the way you engage and
merge with the outer world and how you bring through into life
the energies depicted by the Sun, the Moon, and the rest of your
birth chart.  Everything is filtered through the Ascendant from
an esoteric point of view.  It indicates your soul's function
and thus a key part of your destiny.
Aquarius Rising:

     Your personal destiny and soul function is ultimately
related to the impulses toward progressive change,
experimentation and innovative, creative thinking which reside
in the collective psyche of your generation.  You are a conduit
for change, for awakening new thought.  As such, you will always
be seen as a bit avant garde, offbeat, or different.  Spiritual
unity and weaving individuals into harmonious cooperative groups
are the ideals that you are intended to embody.  You focus is on
the power of the group which transcends the individual.  An
innate and genuine humanitarianism and altruism are the high
side of this; and uncompromising dogmatic social ideology is the
other extreme.  Ruled by both Saturn, the planet of form, and by
Uranus, the planet of pure mind, you must bring your ideas and
ideals into a real, practicable, livable form.

Aquarius Rising and Uranus in Cancer:

     Your Uranus is in Cancer: Changes and advancement in the
status of women, of families, or children is an important part
of your contribution to the world at large.  Different kinds of
families or homes, and more flexible work or lifestyles may be a
part of this.  Also, you will investigate, invent, or support
new ideas in the field of health and healing.

              Chapter 4: Saturn, Your Achilles Heel

     Karmically considered, the placement of Saturn in your
birth chart indicates where your energetic blockages, weaknesses
and fears lie, and the areas of your life where the most
concentrated effort and discipline will be required to master
and overcome them.  Yet it also points to the aspects of life
which can become your greatest strength if you are willing to
face your fears and difficulties honestly, and work with them

Saturn in Libra

     Finding a balance in your life between participating in a
close relationship, and attending to your own requirements and
your own personal development, is a crucial issue for you in
this lifetime, and not a particularly easy one.  For you,
relationships with people usually come at a rather steep cost,
and they may seem more of a burden or more work than mutual
pleasure.  You may thus enter into personal relationships
cautiously and reluctantly, or you may reserve some part of
yourself and, in effect, refuse to be fully engaged.  Expecting,
at some level, to be disappointed, you opt not to invest
yourself entirely, and then wonder why you do not feel
fulfilled, why there is a vacuum.  At other times, you may find
yourself taking on much more than your fair share in your
partnerships, and can even martyr yourself for the sake of a
friendship, marriage or other cooperative endeavor.  Because of
the frustration and disappointment you experience in this realm
of your life (or at least in certain key relationships), you
will be thrown back on your own resources in order to truly
become a whole person capable of relating to other individuals.
What you seek from or through the other, you will have to find
or develop from within.
Saturn in 8th house:

     You have a tendency to protectively withhold yourself and
to not give your all.  Thus you experience much frustration
either sexually, financially, or both.  The possibility of a
merger (whether on a deep psychic, emotional level, or even in a
material way) brings up some of your greatest fears.  Sexual
politics and issues of personal power and control (all involving
an inability to surrender) are apt to be at work behind the
scenes.  Taking on a karmic debt through your partner or being
burdened financially or otherwise by him or her is also
possibility.  Confronting your fears of giving everything,
opening yourself completely and letting go come through these

     A fear of not being in control may well be the root of many
of your protective, defensive, and ultimately self-defeating
behavior which you play out in your intimate relationships.
Also, a deep concern with death and mortality is evident.
Learning to to let go, to surrender with grace and ease, to die,
based on a basic trust in life may be your greatest challenge.

Saturn Square Uranus:

    You carry tremendous inner tension which you will have to
work to resolve and harmonize in order to have any peace in your
life or any ongoing success in either your personal
relationships or your life ambitions.  You have what some would
call a "disobedient spirit": habitual and chronic irritability
and rebelliousness, a refusal to accept or cooperate with any
kind of outward authority, and perhaps most troublesome of all,
a tendency to blame others(the government, the system, your
parents, your ex-) for your discontent.  Because you tend to
resent any kind of restrictions or limitations (including those
imposed simply by living a "normal" orderly existence), you may
periodically revolt, and any sort of stability, security, or
seniority you may have acquired is badly damaged or destroyed.
Or, your inner stress may be expressed in physical symptoms such
as grinding your teeth, TMJ, headaches, or imbalances caused by
disrupted rhythms.  Your karmic pattern is to operate out of an
extreme, polarized, all-or-nothing position.  You may believe
you must either conform and be an automaton or totally disregard
convention, tradition, and the old order.  On the other hand,
you may identify entirely with the established orthodoxy and
feel you must repress any impulses toward change or
unconventionality, that it is somehow dangerous to experiment or
deviate in any way. You may see-saw between these two extremes.
Transitions tend to be especially difficult for you.  You do not
want to let go AND you want to sever your ties entirely.  To
begin harmonizing these patterns and healing your life, decide
first of all to stop blaming others or the way the world is for
your discomfort.  Make friends with "the enemy", those parts of
life you have been polarized against.  On a physical level,
regular, rhythmic exercise such as bicycling or swimming, and
receiving massage therapy to release emotional and muscular
tension can be helpful.

Saturn Conjunct Neptune:

     Your psychic antennae seem particularly sensitive to the
pain of the world, and you are apt to take your spiritual and
moral responsibility to respond to this very seriously.
However, you carry a pattern of absorbing and taking on the
burdens and suffering of the world, and because of this you may
struggle with pessimism and discouragement, periodically
becoming overwhelmed. Furthermore, your imagination tends to
amplify these problems so that your view of reality can be
rather sorrowful. It is important for you to learn to use your
imaginative faculties constructively, and also to recognize that
many of the nebulous worries you have are unfounded.

     Past incarnations as monk, nun, ascetic, or ashramite
during which a worldly life was considered antithetical to inner
development or progress toward God continue to influence you.
You may be hampered in your material progress by devoting
yourself entirely to the spiritual life.  A persistent desire to
retreat from the world and leave all superficial distractions
behind stems from this also.  One of your karmic lesson is to
integrate the inner or spiritual life with your ordinary

                   Chapter 5: The Hard Aspects

     The following is a description of your MAJOR LIFE
CHALLENGES, both in terms of energies you are to learn to
develop and express in a positive way, and those which are the
result of struggles and unresolved karmic issues which you have
brought into this life.

Mercury Sesquiquadrate Uranus:

     Your unusually inventive, creative, restless, and original
mind can have both advantages and disadvantages.  If you can
balance or overcome tendencies toward extreme restlessness and
going off on mental tangents, you have gifts of a creative
genius, inspiration, and a direct awareness of truth which is
apt to descend upon you like lightening, in terms of suddenly
seeing the solution to some problem or grasping an idea without
needing a methodical explanation.  You simply have an intuitive
"knowing" about something.  You can be a channel for new
information and ideas.  A certain rebelliousness and dislike of
formality and "tradition for tradition's sake" is an aspect of
your mental patterning which may prevent you from taking
advantage of the wisdom of the past.  Often, you will "reinvent
the wheel", or make changes simply for the sake of change, not
necessarily to improve upon the old but because in your mind
"new" or "different" is superior to the past.  Your mind is very
future oriented and progressive but one way this manifests is in
a kind of nervous, erratic, unsettled way of being which is
always moving on, unable to be present or stay put.

     Centering meditations and other techniques you find helpful
to calm and stabilize you are necessary on a regular basis.
Regular contact with the earth, through gardening or walking for
instance, can be very helpful also.  The development of a
regular rhythm and routine, daily rituals which give continuity
and a form of stability, are also enormously helpful.

     Stones that promote feelings of peace and sooth the nerves
include rose quartz and jade.

     Others that may benefit or inspire you include clear
quartz, larimar, and opals. Avoiding caffeine and other
stimulants may be necessary too, at least from time to time.

Venus Quincunx Jupiter:

     In this lifetime the erotic impulses of human love, desire,
and sexual relationships are a highly charged focus of your
attention.  Expressing your sexual energies and personal
magnetic attractiveness in ways that are loving and respectful
or at least not harmful to yourself and others will be one of
your issues. Dominating others through your sexuality or
allowing yourself to be dominated in this way is also a theme.
Dissonance or turbulence in intimate relationships, especially
over differences in sexual drives or needs, must be handled with
care. Expressing your passion in ways that are compatible with
your own values and sense of beauty is the key here.

     On another level, balancing and integrating masculine and
feminine energies within yourself is the challenge.  Carrying or
wearing watermelon tourmaline can be quite useful along these

Mars Opposition Uranus:

     You are like a very high-spirited, temperamental horse,
full of great energy and drive, but also impulsive, erratic,
fitful, and prone to sudden starts and stops.  Also there is
within you a fierce independence, a strong craving for freedom,
and at times a fiery rebelliousness.  If you have free rein, you
can be relatively happy, though not ever completely "settled" or
contentedly serene for long.  Under conditions that are too
structured and constricted, however, you are more apt to blow

     When out of balance you are prone to express yourself in
ways that can have negative karmic consequences, such as:
irritable impatience and a volatile, unpredictable temper (which
can affect your health as well as damage the trust and quality
of your relationships); intense restlessness (resulting in an
inability to persist with a project long enough to see it
through to completion); a complete unwillingness to cooperate or
compromise (which also can undermine relationships, particularly
with authority); physical recklessness (which an lead to
accidents); and/or the inclination to ignite controversy and
unrest in your environment.  Because of your high (if somewhat
unstable) energy level you are apt to forge ahead, oblivious to
the fact that you are running right over the people around you.
You may believe you are your own law or are above the law.  Too
much attachment to action and to being right are also potentials
within you.

     Learning to slow down, developing patience and the capacity
to wait and cultivating a more steady, peaceful spirit will
enable you to express the higher creativity, originality, and
inspired passion of which you are capable.
Jupiter is Retrograde:

     Moral concerns (including lingering unresolved issues
stemming from a prior lifetime or lifetimes in which you
exercised poor judgment in moral, ethical, or religious matters)
come into play here.  Thus, it is especially important for you
to maintain high standards while pursuing your aspirations.

Uranus is Retrograde:

     All of the above is complicated by the fact that in prior
times, you experienced great personal instability as a result of
impersonal, collective impulses toward change (during a time of
revolution, political upheaval, war, etc.).  You may well have
been an agent of these movements, with a lingering inclination
toward radical solutions, extremism, flauntingly disregarding
social mores.  Or you may have become a reactionary, fearing and
resisting all reforms or departures from the "main stream".  It
is thus difficult for you to be balanced and fair towards any
eccentricities (in others or even in yourself).  A misuse of
science or technology, perhaps participating in experiments
which were harmful to you or others, is also indicated.  Thus,
you may have a deep distrust of or an attraction/repulsion
toward science and technological advancement.

Uranus Square Neptune:

     You and many others born the year you were are inherently
open to experiencing unusual states of consciousness and higher
inspiration.  However, your grasp of reality may be rather shaky
at times.  In your incarnational past you practiced extreme
methods that forced open your higher spiritual centers before
you were prepared to constructively channel those energies
and/or you were involved in extreme idealistic systems of
thought that were not particularly well-grounded.  It is
important for you to moderate this extremism and to stabilize
yourself.  Any mind-altering practice or substance should be
utilized with caution. Develop regularity and rhythm in your
life, and use your inspirational energies to infuse your
ordinary life with imagination.  Too much focus on utopia or
spirituality can lead to disorientation.  You easily get too

                     Chapter 6: Soft Aspects

     The following is a description of your GIFTS and STRENGTHS
which can help you work with your major life challenges. These
are abilities and qualities of heart, mind, and soul which are
quite natural to you.  You probably take them for granted.
Because these represent the lines of least resistance for you,
you may rely too much upon them at times; hence, there are some
cautions suggested.  Still, these are the areas where good flows
into your life and/or where you have considerable inner

Mars Trine Jupiter:

     You have developed the capacity to direct your
masculine/active, yang energies in healthy and positive ways.
Thus, you have confidence in your "masculine" strengths and
abilities.  Ennobled by ideals of fair play and concern for the
broader social implications of your choices, your actions are
most often fortunate, leading to success and increased
opportunities.  A gift for leadership and inspiring others is
also yours.  Physical playfulness is an important way you can
re-create and rejuvenate yourself.

Jupiter Sextile Uranus:

     Through your openness, optimism, enthusiasm for adventure
or new ideas, and your willingness to go out on a limb and do
something unusual or risky, blessings flow into your life.  In
your willingness to follow your inspiration, to pay attention to
uncanny coincidences and synchronistic events, you attune to a
higher order and magnetize good fortune.  You also have a
fortunate sense of timing, and what others may see as your "good
luck" is at least partly your knowing when to say yes to an
opportunity.  In fact, your positive expectations help create
such opportunities.  Sharing joy, fun, laughter, and playfulness
is also one of the ways you give birth to the new in your life.
Discovery and benefits through travel is also indicated.

Saturn Sextile Pluto:

     Your latent but well developed capacity to endure hardship,
deprivation, solitude, and long periods of difficult,
painstaking work is one of your strengths, stemming from
lifetimes of renunciation and adhering to severe disciplines.
In this lifetime you can draw on the core inner resources you
developed then.  Work that involves elements of finding what is
hidden, silence, seclusion, single pointed concentration, or
research will utilize this gift. Living simply, even austerely,
may appeal to you as you have learned to do so under extreme
conditions. You are a survivor, no matter what.

     You may also have a natural tendency to isolate yourself or
to become one-sidedly fixated upon your goals and purposes,
something you learned to do in the past.

Neptune Sextile Pluto:

     Collectively, this is a time in history that enables you
and those of your generation to advance spiritually through a
heightened awareness of the invisible and intangible realms.  A
rebirth of spirituality through direct contact with higher
forces is occurring in this generation.  This contact takes
many, many forms, including a compelling interest in life beyond
death.  You may or may not have a personal involvement with
this, as it is a group karma rather than a primarily personal
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